UG is the Blackhole - Luc Sala

UG is the Blackhole, Interview with Luc Sala:   

       

https://youtu.be/ssl77Xl1hXU?si=Ez-HJvepgweWK2gX                                                     

In this hour-long rivetting video, UG is uncompromising and throwing out everything we hold sacred and dear. He is dismantling all that is ‘known’ –theories, beliefs, institutions, and value systems.

Calling the bluff, “Life has no grander purpose than the mosquito sucking your blood”, UG makes us see things for what they are.

In UG’s hard hitting words, “To be free from the need to be free” lies the restoration of life’s balance and normalcy. 

‘To be free from the need to be free’ is true freedom, freedom from all mental chimeras or delusions. This is the real “Stopping in our tracks.”

In his ‘scorched-earth’ tirade against all spiritual undertakings or psychological adventures, UG boots out false search or hope (especially of the psychological or spiritual kind).

Hope is the dope for psychological continuity. Hope fuels thinking, spurring the mind. 

But false hope begets hopelessness and restlessness, guzzling away huge amounts of our energy and vitality.

Most importantly, hope hijacks perception, giving rise to delusions and distortions.

UG surgically goes about uprooting even the tiny remnants of search or hope. This is scary stuff. But when we begin to see the futility of false search and the profound wisdom of his words, we actually become hope-free and grounded. 

Being hope-free or goal-free, is to be free from the tyranny of the mind. It is real healing, unburdening and rejuvenating. 

                             ***

Here is a close parallel from an ancient classic, Ribhu Gita, hailed as an exposition on meta-meditation:

किंचिदस्ति इति चेच्चिते सर्वं भवति शीघ्र अतः।

यत्किञ्चित किमापि क्वापि न अस्ति चेन्न प्रसाज्यति।

kincidastiti ceccitte sarvarh bhavati sighrataha.

yatkincit kimapi kvapi nasti cenna prasajyati.

(“Even if there is a little of the ‘mind’ (hope), it soon becomes all. If there is no little, nothing arises whatsoever, or wherever.”)

                             - Ribhu Gita (4-28), 

Ribhu Gita is hailed by Sri Ramana Maharshi as one of the greatest classics offering the closest description of his own state. 

In Ribhu Gita, a sagely figure Ribhu, a close parallel to UG, goes about surgically discrediting all that is ‘known’, brushing aside all gods, scriptures, institutions, traditions, names and forms, to try and quell the stirrings of the mind of his acolyte Nidagha. 

But here, the end-game is still ‘samadhi’ (spiritual goal).

UG, in a major departure from all other sagely figures, fiercely tore down one of the most acclaimed spiritual practices in the Eastern tradition – the negation approach (‘neti, neti’ - ‘not this’, ‘not this’). 

UG pointed out that negation is very much fraught with desire or hope to attain some positive outcome – a state of enlightenment or samadhi. 

For UG ‘neti, neti’ therefore, is not a rejection but quite the opposite- the affirmation, the assertion of a goal, a spiritual grail. It puts one on a merry go round, on an ego trip, once again maintaining and nourishing the false ‘self’, defeating the very purpose. 

Spiritual goals and undertakings could indeed be enticing traps. There is always the danger that false hope could push someone into a real state of despondence and delusion with dire consequences.

“There is no oasis situated yonder; you are stuck with the mirage.” - UG

Transcription of the video clip

Luc Sala: “Not much left! …that’s the main story. UG Krishnamurti, every time I talk with you, you leave me with nothing. I would call you the big Blackhole of our knowledge. Everything that we can dream of, as being relevant, as having meaning, goes into UG’s Blackhole and disappears…

UG: I don’t see any Blackhole.

LS: Well, for me, you are! You are like the way they (what you call), our illusions disappear, I don’t know what is behind the Blackhole, neither do you…

UG: I don’t see any Blackhole there…you see a Blackhole there?

LS: Whatever I see, you make the weapon smoke !

UG: There is a very comforting thing for you to believe that I am a Blackhole.

LS: Even to believe Blackhole, isn’t there…We spoke with UG Krishnamurti, 50 years ago he came to Holland and for about 50 years , he did away with his being associated with Theosophical Society, and everything India stood for and I believe everything that the Western world…

UG: Everything human thought has come up with, everything was thrown out of my system, I am a very lucky guy, I have been freed from the stranglehold of the human thought and I CANNOT BE OF ANY HELP TO ANYBODY BECAUSE, YOU DON’T NEED ANY HELP!

LS: Wow… To feel free from the need to be…

UG: To be free from the need to be free

LS: To be free from the need to be free, That’s a paradox…

UG: It sounds like a paradox…It’s a fact!

LS: To be free from the need to be free

UG: There is nothing there to be free from…

WOW !!!

" What kind of human being you want in this world? " - UG

 

" What kind of human being you want in this world? "

Knowledge is a societal inheritance, the collective experience and thinking of mankind from time immemorial.

Some of our material and spiritual goals take their birth in the experience and thoughts of men and women we hold in great awe and esteem. We tend to eulogize and emulate their thoughts and behaviors.

Society showcases two contradictory models or archetypes for our emulation – the first is symbolized by the King (the ruler or the achiever or the top dog in any field) epitomizing the material goals. The second is the Savior (the saint or the philosopher or the guru) evangelizing the spiritual goals. Both models are dangled as worthy of our lifetime pursuit.

There is also the third kind, the hybrid model of the ‘Philosopher-King’ or the ‘Sage-Ruler’ (the benign-leader).

We are brainwashed from childhood to believe that achievement of material goals or the attainment of spiritual goals as the be-all and end-all of our life.

“Your spiritual goals are not different from the material goals” - UG. He maintained that both are fundamentally self-serving or self-seeking activities.

Spiritual goals are mere psychological wants. Psychology is a societal burden, a superimposition on the biology, the root cause of mental anguish.

Wanting to be someone, to be superior, to be different from others is a fake, unnatural undertaking. Not only it involves huge effort and energy, it is the root cause of frustration, restlessness and hopelessness.

“Wanting and thinking always go together – as long as you want something, there is thinking.” - UG.  

Greater the seeking, greater the needless thinking, greater is the misery!

 

****

Frustration could arise when someone is chasing some impossible or unachievable goal. Also, when there is an incompatibile goal that contradicts one’s true nature.

UG addressed both these issues in his inimitable ways. He personally helped many individuals through timely intervention. He made some give up their jobs to pursue business instead ( a la banker Nagesh who went on to establish a successful business in Realty Finance) , he made some give up their business to take up a public career ( a la Frank Noronha who gave up tea business and ended up as the Chief Spokesperson for the Government of India), he encouraged some to embrace saffron ( a la Lahiri, an Indian businessman from Europe) while influencing others to give up  saffron ( a la Udipi Swamiji).  

The guidance was always finetuned and calibrated to suit the needs of the particular individual to mitigate the suffering born of impossible or incompatible goals.

****

A note from Chandrasekhar Babu, UG's longtime friend and host:

In the year 1983 while I was employed with the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited in Bangalore, I got a lucrative offer from a private company in Hyderabad. I went to meet UG who was at the time staying at Goldie's (Film Director Vijay Anand) guest house in Mumbai.

After learning about the new job offer, UG said, "Do you have to relocate to Hyderabad? What a shame!" 

To drive home the absurdity of the choice, he quoted a Telugu proverb, " ఇంత బతకు బతికి ఇంటి వెనక చచ్చాడాన్నట్లు" ("After living life king-size, dying like an outcast!")

UG advised me not to accept the offer.

Soon after, I got a fantastic offer from Hindustan Motors, closer to Bangalore. UG readily approved. I left Hindustan Aeronautics to join HM. 

Years later, once again UG played a key role in my opting for voluntary retirement from service in 1992. I was 47 at the time, with at least a dozen more years of service under my belt. 

I complied with UG's advice, resigning from service on the 9th of July 1992, incidentally on UG's 74th birthday!

My stint with Valentine Model School commenced soon after. 

 ****

Transcript of the Video Clip:

UG: The basic question we all have to ask is, “What kind of a human being you want in this world?”

( Q: the goal of psychiatrists etc.)

UG: We have unfortunately placed before mankind the models of a perfect being. THAT PERFECT BEING IS THE SPIRITUAL TEACHER AND HIS BEHAVIORAL PATTERNS. AND THE WHOLE VALUE SYSTEM IS BORN OUT OF THAT.

And our insistence and demand, on the part of culture and the value system, to fit them all into that mold is bound to fail, because every individual is unique, UNIQUE!

Nature is not interested in creating the human species in one common mold, it is interested in creating different species, it does not use anything as a model, that’s where we have gone wrong. Because of the fear that the status quo of our culture or society or whatever you want to call it, cannot be maintained if we do not fit all the people into that value system.

I am not against the value system at all, but the demand to fit everybody into a common mold, which is the value system, is responsible for the breaking up or breaking down of many people. They have given up.

And the so-called normal man, if there is any, he lives in hope and dies in hope, (that) one day he is going to successfully fit himself into that value system very successfully, and live in harmony with that. And the mad people have given up and so, we are pushing them to make them functional and it is the very thing that is pushing them to suicide.

****

“NOT GETTING WHAT YOU WANT is sorrow, is frustration” – UG

Mahesh Bhatt sparring with UG

The Real McCoys or sages are grounded and purposeless. They go about leading ordinary lives, completely engaged (but not involved) in the mundane affairs of life.

The real men and women shy away from all recognition and reputation, staying clear of ceremony and pomp, security and fortification. The Real McCoy is never caught in the trappings of a Pope or a jagad-guru. (“If Jesus had security, there would be no Christianity.” – UG to Mahesh Bhatt pointing to the heavily-guarded Vatican).

Sages never hesitate to speak out or act when they sense danger or harm either to the community or an individual. When circumstances demand courage and wisdom, they are ready and willing to forsake their reputation and even their lives to avert a crisis or prevent harm.

The sagely utterings and sayings are all born in such benign interventions. Like the sudden onset of an earthquake, or the abrupt eruption of a volcano, the outpourings are extempore speeches or statements, not delivered from the convenience and comfort of pulpits or platforms.

****

The timeless classic of Bhagwad Gita was birthed right in the middle of a pitched battle when Sri Krishna got engaged in a dialogue with a deluded and despondent Arjuna who had given up his resolve to fight even before the war started.

The iconic warrior had ironically succumbed to his own internal enemies, the demons of dichotomy, unable to choose between his ‘duty’ (to fight injustice) and ‘loyalty’ (to his elders and teachers standing against him in the opposition camp), he was clueless about his response, completely muddled and utterly perplexed!

This is the deceptive power of a conditioned mind under the vicious grip of a hypocritical value system.

Sri Krishna does not waste time and embarks on the discourse of Gita, exorcising the demons of delusion in Arjuna who then readily embraces ‘duty’ over ‘loyalty’, ‘rightness’ over ‘uprightness’ accomplishing his goal.

Gita has since become a beacon for all those battling with demons of despondence and delusion.

The famous epic Bhagavatam similarly came about during a personal crisis. It was delivered by the sage Suka to King Parikshit while the latter was on a death sentence through snakebite because of a curse.

Socrates gave his famous ‘Defense Speech’ before his death sentence through consumption of the deadly hemlock.

Jesus delivered his momentous sermon while ascending the gallows.

The sagely Nisargadutta Maharaj, on his way to organize his wife’s funeral, stopped short and wholeheartedly addressed the concerns of a spiritual seeker, on a road-side chat, while the seeker remained oblivious to the circumstances.

All of them acted promptly in response to people overwhelmed by their struggles and crises.

Contrast all this with the bogus speeches of today’s platform-gurus. The scripted speeches are filled with cheap platitudes and palliatives, full of entertaining quotes, jokes and stories. They are completely stage-managed by army of cronies, time-bound, carrying huge price tags, pepped up by ceremony and music, in club-class comfort creating the ambience of a ‘spiritual spa’.

Platform performances and con artists in the spiritual business are far removed from harsh realities of life.

The real ‘awakening’ is more like ‘a kick in the gut’ by a sagely character and a grim reminder of reality.

Intense exchanges of friends with UG are real kickers filled with raw energy and emotions.

Only those who remained brutally honest, and prepared for the gut-punches could get into the ‘ring’ with UG, and survive the intense pressure and heat, and the relentless body blows.

A countable few really dared to ‘take the bull by the horn’ teasing out some of the finest repartees from UG, true gifts for posterity.

We are grateful to these daring men and women.

Here is such a high-voltage encounter between the fiery UG and a vicious Mahesh Bhatt.

In this rare clip, UG is holding forte, pushing the envelope and ‘frustrating’ his longtime friend Mahesh Bhatt.

Mahesh is forcefully pushing back, here, he is the very personification of vehemence, taunting UG and touting JK, making a case for ‘frustration’, and doggedly defending the ‘reality of frustration’. He is genuinely and fiercely rooting for ‘freedom from frustration or sorrow’ (some common ‘JK themes’ – familiar to many ‘JK-widows’)

UG, as usual, is unperturbed and nonchalant, brushing aside the rationale for ‘the reality of frustration’ advanced by a rebellious Mahesh.

UG has the last word and nails it, “All your romanticized pain, sorrow or frustration are rooted in NOT GETTING WHAT YOU WANT.” Period!

****

Our unfulfilled wants or desires, feelings of hopelessness or pathos, make for rich mental imagery and juicy word-salads. These could be spun into romantic poetry, into drama, movie scripts, into profound philosophical or intellectual or spiritual doctrines (‘the doctrine of suffering’), into enchanting writings and discourses by skilled pundits or wordsmiths.

Words solidify experiences, letting us relive a moment of joy or pain or loss giving it a life and momentum of its own.

Society has always glorified and celebrated verbalization. The gigantic collection of books in world’s libraries is a testament.

Wordsmiths who lack empathy and the sagely wisdom could easily weaponize the words with enormous consequences for humanity.

Only a sage could exorcise the demon of verbalisation. 

****

Transcription of the video clip: 

UG: Its all bullshit. Nothing else. What’s sorrow, you are talking about?

Q: No you keep on saying, something which we are battling with every now and then, that it’s not there!

What’s it that there?

Q: It is there!

UG: What is there, you tell me?

Q: I am frustrated! Frustration is concrete. Sorrow is concrete here! You just say it’s not there!

UG: Where is it?

Q: It’s there inside of me. It is there.

UG: Because it’s not there, the vehemence is coming! Its’s not there,

Q: It is there

UG: Where?

Q: I feel it inside my body, as a physical ache, I feel

( The dialogue gets repeated)  

UG: It is throwing out, that nonsense!

Q: What is throwing out?

UG: It is not throwing out, you are talking about it, it is not there.

Q: Where?

UG: You say it is there, I say it is not there, that’s the end of all conversation, finish!

Q: For you its not there,

UG: For you also its not there, you are just talking about that nonsense

Q: It is there for me and it is there for everyone.

UG: I don’t see, how is it expressing itself?

Q: You are the only person for whom, it does not seem to be there

UG: No, no, no, it’s not there

Q: That’s why a man like J Krishnamurti or a writer like that makes more sense to me than you

UG: Certainly

Q: This Frustration makes more sense to me. I relate to that frustration and not to you. You don’t seem to understand what we are talking about.

UG: I understand you.

No. I don’t think so. You say there is no sorrow, no despair, no frustration.

UG: Why you are still trying to be free from that frustration

That’s my whole tragedy is, I am still trying to…

UG: Why you are still (trying to?), YOU HAVE NO PROBLEMS…

‘NOT GETTING WHAT YOU WANT’

is sorrow, is frustration – UG

****

Go anywhere, do anything you want, that’s the only thing I am saying.

All frustration, write poetry, some nonsense, some romantic stuff, what frustration? What is it you are doing? I don’t see any frustration!

I have frustration (mocking), what the hell you are talking about?

NOT GETTING WHAT YOU WANT, THAT’S THE FRUSTRATION!

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT?

You want to be free from frustration, then you want me to tell you ‘how I can be free from frustration?’, That ( the effort or yearning to free oneself) is the one that keeps the frustration there.

The HOW is related to the frustration. So, you don’t want to be free from frustration. You want to live with it, romanticize it, and make movies and make money, sit on a platform and talk about it – ‘don’t condemn it, don’t justify it, don’t identify yourself with frustration, be choicelessly aware of that…

ONE WHO IS CHOICELESSLY AWARE OF THE FRUSTRATION IS THE FRUSTRATION!

There is no other frustration other than the bastard’s (JK) statement – ‘choicelessly aware of frustration’ – THAT IS THE FRUSTRATION!

Because you will never be free from that, that’s a joke – ‘be choicelessly aware of frustration’, just look at it, that (frustration) doesn’t exist. (It’s) the only thing that exists(are) his empty words, that you have picked up from somewhere else. That’s all. So you don’t want to be free from that.

If you are really interested in freeing yourself from that which you are not (a frustrated human), that shit (all empty words and borrowed ideas) must go…