This conversation (scroll down for the audio clip and transcription) between Bob (Robert Carr) and UG reminds me of my own exchange with my previous guru, Sri Rayaru, years before bouncing into UG. I was finished with Jiddu Krishnamurti during my college days in Bangalore and soon after Rayaru appeared on the horizon.
Young, sincere and faithful, I used to listen intently to my new guru in flesh and blood, and latch onto his every word. At the time, for me, his words came across as truly liberating and revelatory. He was a simple village man, but his words were powerful and cut through the most sophisticated logic and scholarship. They held a mirror to the many serious limitations and distortions inherent in human understanding and intellect.
The guru hit the nail on the head pointing to the crux of all our problems - the futility and shallowness of our understanding. Little did I realise at the time that in my exchanges with the guru, I too was unconsciously walking into this very trap, the serious and misleading 'intellectual trap' of 'trying to understand' his words.
Understanding is the attempt to see or grasp meaning out of events or words or utterings. No doubt, this is a much-needed tool in the mundane world and has great utility in technical matters, and also for smooth functioning in the day-to-day transactional world where we have to live and function.
Understanding, in this sense, is nothing more than 'storing and sorting' of things or thoughts or words or statements (' understanding is nothing but hashing and rehashing of thoughts' ~ UG).
But what we call understanding could actually be a dubious intellectual exercise when it is used as an instrument for inquiring into life or reality. It could become an intellectual trap when ordinary 'words' or 'sounds' get enriched through our limited experience and knowledge. Words then acquire 'meanings', and 'meanings' turn into 'ideas' etc. This is the mechanism of ideation or conceptualization or mentation. This builds our worldview, and we are stuck with it forever. We use our so-called understanding as the pivot or reference or guide in all our dealings with the world.
All of us, knowingly or unknowingly invest in words or statements of gurus or teachers and turn them into some kind of 'teaching' or 'ideology' or 'doctrine' and end up carrying the burden of their wisdom on our backs. We fail to realise that words are to be used as the proverbial 'net' to capture the essence and should be thrown away or discarded after 'catching the fish'.
****
Back then, I was still raw and had absolutely no clue about the latent dangers of 'understanding'. The process of 'constructing meaning' or understanding is a deadly game that our intellect plays like a pro.
During one of our verbal exchanges, I challenged my guru on his view and confronted him with 'a dose of his own medicine', so to speak. Essentially, I was pushing back at him with my own 'acquired' point of view, by weaving meanings and images around his own words that I had gathered during the course of our daily discussions and dialogues. And boy, he immediately flared up like a volcano and raged like an inferno. He clinically went about 'putting me in my place', thoroughly demolishing all my ideas and arguments, pulverizing my bloated ego.
My foolish attempt to 'make sense' of his words had brought about this debacle. I was puffed up and arrogant with the acquired knowledge that I had piled up over the years. This encounter came as a total shock to me and completely shattered my erstwhile investment or faith in words, however noble or great. It hit me hard that my shallow understanding was premised upon false and fabricated meanings that I had infused into the words of the guru, thanks to my limited experience and borrowed knowledge.
In fact, the guru was just holding a mirror to me, showing me how stupid and shortsighted I really was. I was totally blind to the folly of 'understanding'. Till then I had no idea of how seriously I was invested in 'words'. It was indeed a wakeup call.
This shocking exchange put me in a state of total stillness and silence that lasted for several days. I fell into a deep trance-like state where I could see and read a person like an open book and even predict events as they happened. Gradually the effect evaporated after a few days.
I had gotten a bloody nose but was lucky to have received one of the best lessons of my lifetime. Whenever we hear or read something, we indulge in building or constructing rich imagery, ideas and concepts around the words.
****
Here is UG exactly describing how we indulge in the word game by bestowing such imaginary power and glory to mere words,
" You are building images around those words, creating a tremendous image around those words. But actually, they are words" ~ UG.
Here is another rare gem by UG,
"The problem is, if I may put it that way, there is nothing there (no entity) which is trying to capture something. It(thought) is one, they are not two different things."
~ UG
Not only UG, many other sages like Sri Ramakrishna, Sri Ramana, Sri Nisargadutta too spoke in unison saying that there is no separate 'psychological entity' there. This is abundantly evident when we see animals and infants.
Here UG says, "It (thought) is one, they are not two different things."
And also, UG clearly explicated that the division of thought or the 'splitting of thought' is solely responsible for the illusion of the 'self' or the 'thinker' in these powerful and impactful words,
" If the thought remains one, without splitting into two, that does the trick! "
The division or splitting of thought is brought about solely by our intent. Our desire or intent to 'capture' or 'understand' or 'know' creates the demand for 'inquiry' and brings into existence the illusory 'inquirer' or the 'questioner'.
Intent unknowingly, unconsciously brings about the division in thought as the 'inquirer and the inquired', 'knower and knowledge', 'observer and the observed', 'thinker and the thought' etc.
Our intent to understand the 'wave' artificially separates it from the 'ocean'; we conveniently ignore the fact that the 'wave' and ocean' are the same waterbody. Our intent to look at one separates it from the other treating them as two different and distinct things. This is the splitting of thoughts.
Yes, words or thoughts are artificially enriched or loaded with meanings through acquired knowledge and experience. They create fantasy or magic. Words can build worlds, create forms and names and make our existence complex and complicated.
Most importantly intent can introduce serious distortions in words and thoughts.
Only the lucky realise the mischief or danger of words or intentions. Not just that, the wise also know their utility in the societal or transactional world,
" No, we have to use words. The words are there. You see that's the end of our conversation (there is no need to carry the words any further)" ~ UG
****
A few days after my heated exchange with the guru, I once again confronted and questioned him about the 'trap of words' and whether we could really trust words at all, and he repeated these exact words of UG to Bob. He emphasised that we have no choice but to use words as long as we live and function in the midst of society.
My guru was remarkable in many ways, but differences were beginning to crop up between us from time to time making our relationship untenable and tenuous. We locked horns on several occasions, sometimes in the public. His followership kept on increasing and soon he was contemplating a spiritual centre of his own with the backing of his newfound followers. I was vehemently opposed to the idea of any spiritual organisation. Gurudom and spiritual circus eventually took precedence over enlightening dialogue and discussion. The time was ripe for me to part ways.
Life had different plans for me. Very soon UG stormed into my life, and I had to shift base to Mumbai.
Audio Clip
Audio Transcript
Bob (telling the audience): Well, the question is that I'm
still trying to fit him (UG) into a framework that there is such a thing as a
clear, rational man.
UG: It is irrational. It is illogical.
Bob: I know that.
UG: From that point of view,
Bob: Yes, but these are all just words.
I don't see anything other than words. That's all that I'm saying. There is nothing more than words. We assume that there is something (meaning, the second-order derivative) more than words.
You are building images around those words, creating a tremendous image around those words. But actually, they are words.
The word is the thing. You can't say the word is not the thing. If the word is not the thing, what the hell it is? I want to know.
Bob: Accepting that, we are always trying to capture something.
UG: What is it?
Bob: It's the lack of being able to face what is, this reality?.
UG: The problem is, if I may put it that way, there is nothing there which is trying to capture something.
It is one, they are not two different things.
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