“We can''t (even) live together if you don't believe in what others' believe.” - UG

“You are nothing but belief, and when it dies, you are dead." - UG

We cannot live with another individual, or be part of a family or group if we don’t believe what they believe.

Belief is the entry ticket to coexistence. Not sharing or accepting beliefs of others could mean – ‘no admission’ to the group or worse, the threat of expulsion from the group.

Come to think of it, all our social or political structures are nothing but institutionalized beliefs.

In any social group (including the WhatsApp or Facebook Groups), there is always some form of group dynamic, an element of control, to ensure status quo.

Group dynamics are a ‘soft’ form of control, a power-play where willing members are reined in by ‘the group mind’, an invisible power-center.

Unspoken, unwritten rules (norms) guide activities of many social groups. Rules about how to solidify beliefs, how to recruit members into the fold, how to indoctrinate newbies, how to chastise dissenters, how to rehabilitate deviants ensure the status quo and continuity of the group.

‘Sense of belonging’ is a powerful motive deep-rooted in the human psyche.

Without subscribing to some form of belief, without affiliation to some group, one feels empty, crippled, lost and lonely.

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Is it then possible to free oneself from the tyranny of beliefs and groups and ‘to function sanely and intelligently’ in a society?

UG emphasized three things to be on our own and not to succumb to any influence of a group or a belief system:

First, ‘Brutal honesty’ - this is the place to start with.

Honesty is to see things for what they are, to see or own one’s flaws or ugliness, to junk pretense or fakery, and to dare to be ordinary and real.  

At the same time, it is important not to escape reality by ‘trying to become someone’, or ‘following some model.’  All such efforts will only help keep the old, ugly ‘self’ continuing in a modified form.

UG therefore asked us to STOP, to drop all movement in any direction, at any level, in any dimension.

Self’ is the ‘movement of knowledge’ -UG.

Second, UG spoke of ‘uncompromising and uncomplaining self-reliance.’  

(Psychological) dependence is the beginning of all corruption or corrosion or compromise.

With self-reliance, one gains the ability to say ‘No’ to all falsehoods and fake relationships.

The more one becomes self-reliant, the less is the psychological burden, more the freedom to follow the dictates of one’s heart.

And finally, the third, the ‘the courage to stand alone.’

With ‘brutal honesty’ and ‘uncompromising self-reliance’ already in place, one is naturally freed from the stranglehold of societal dictates, norms and beliefs.

That bestows the strength or courage to walk alone.   

 

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Video Transcript:

 

“IF THE BELIEF COMES TO AN END, ‘YOU’ WILL COME TO AN END”

     - UG

Q: So, you don’t have any belief system, but does that make your life a little bit empty if you don’t believe anything…

UG: I want to assert, and I have time and again asserted this point that there is only a belief there, there is no believer. So, you are that belief. What you call ‘you’. It doesn’t matter whether you believe in God or whether you believe in the assertions of the scientists or value the assertions that President Bush makes time and again that ‘I will see Americans will have the same standard of living forever.’ You invest your faith in that guy…because he is asserting you know, like that.

So, there is no believer there! You don’t have to take my word, you see, there is only a belief. You are that belief, what you call ‘you’ is that belief. It doesn’t matter what that belief is – whether you believe in God or whether you believe in love or whether you believe in this, that and the other.

So, if that belief comes to an end, you as you know yourself and you experience yourself is coming to an end.

Q: When I die, my shit box goes.

UG:  It goes first, before that, what you call clinical death cannot take place, cannot occur.

So, if that goes now, you will drop dead at this moment. What will remain after that is not your interest, is not your concern because you are not going to be there to tell yourself that you are dead.

So, those who say that you are dead, and define it as clinical death, use their knowledge and tell you that you are not breathing, you are not responding to that stimulus, there is no pulse there, using the knowledge and they say that you are dead, but the fact that you are dead is something which cannot be experienced by you or even by them or even by those beloved ones. What they experience is not the death of their dear, near ones, but the void created by what you call death makes it impossible for them to live the same kind of a life forever, you know.

So, for all practical purposes, there is no such thing as death for the body. Birth and death is a simultaneous process. The moment you are born, you have to die!

Birth is a definition, death is a definition, health is a definition, disease is a definition – all these are definitions. We swallow all those definitions. And we think we know what they are talking about. They don’t know, nothing. Nothiong at all!

So, they assert based upon what they think that they have found out through their research projects or through their beliefs passed on to us from generation to generation. So, the assertion that there is no believer but there is only belief cannot be accepted by you. IF THE BELIEF COMES TO AN END, ‘YOU’ WILL COME TO AN END. So, you cannot but replace one belief with another belief.

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“WE CAN’T LIVE TOGETHER IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE”

                                                                                                                  - UG

So, you have to accept all that (beliefs), for what? We can’t (even) live together if you don’t believe (and accept the beliefs of others), in our (own) homes. You know they force us to eat the same kind of a food…

I was not interested in that (societal belief system), I was only interested in my want. Whatever I want, they(society) didn’t want me to want.

My family members, my teachers, everyone (society) - you should want this, and not that!

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UG is the Blackhole - Luc Sala

UG is the Blackhole, Interview with Luc Sala:   

       

https://youtu.be/ssl77Xl1hXU?si=Ez-HJvepgweWK2gX                                                     

In this hour-long rivetting video, UG is uncompromising and throwing out everything we hold sacred and dear. He is dismantling all that is ‘known’ –theories, beliefs, institutions, and value systems.

Calling the bluff, “Life has no grander purpose than the mosquito sucking your blood”, UG makes us see things for what they are.

In UG’s hard hitting words, “To be free from the need to be free” lies the restoration of life’s balance and normalcy. 

‘To be free from the need to be free’ is true freedom, freedom from all mental chimeras or delusions. This is the real “Stopping in our tracks.”

In his ‘scorched-earth’ tirade against all spiritual undertakings or psychological adventures, UG boots out false search or hope (especially of the psychological or spiritual kind).

Hope is the dope for psychological continuity. Hope fuels thinking, spurring the mind. 

But false hope begets hopelessness and restlessness, guzzling away huge amounts of our energy and vitality.

Most importantly, hope hijacks perception, giving rise to delusions and distortions.

UG surgically goes about uprooting even the tiny remnants of search or hope. This is scary stuff. But when we begin to see the futility of false search and the profound wisdom of his words, we actually become hope-free and grounded. 

Being hope-free or goal-free, is to be free from the tyranny of the mind. It is real healing, unburdening and rejuvenating. 

   ***

Here is a close parallel from an ancient classic, Ribhu Gita, hailed as an exposition on meta-meditation:

किंचिदस्ति इति चेच्चिते सर्वं भवति शीघ्र अतः।

यत्किञ्चित किमापि क्वापि न अस्ति चेन्न प्रसाज्यति।

kincidastiti ceccitte sarvarh bhavati sighrataha.

yatkincit kimapi kvapi nasti cenna prasajyati.

(“Even if there is a little of the ‘mind’ (hope), it soon becomes all. If there is no little, nothing arises whatsoever, or wherever.”)

                             - Ribhu Gita (4-28), 

Ribhu Gita is hailed by Sri Ramana Maharshi as one of the greatest classics offering the closest description of his own state. 

In Ribhu Gita, a sagely figure Ribhu, a close parallel to UG, goes about surgically discrediting all that is ‘known’, brushing aside all gods, scriptures, institutions, traditions, names and forms, to try and quell the stirrings of the mind of his acolyte Nidagha. 

But here, the end-game is still ‘samadhi’ (spiritual goal).

UG, in a major departure from all other sagely figures, fiercely tore down one of the most acclaimed spiritual practices in the Eastern tradition – the negation approach (‘neti, neti’ - ‘not this’, ‘not this’). 

UG pointed out that negation is very much fraught with desire or hope to attain some positive outcome – a state of enlightenment or samadhi. 

For UG ‘neti, neti’ therefore, is not a rejection but quite the opposite- the affirmation, the assertion of a goal, a spiritual grail. It puts one on a merry go round, on an ego trip, once again maintaining and nourishing the false ‘self’, defeating the very purpose. 

Spiritual goals and undertakings could indeed be enticing traps. There is always the danger that false hope could push someone into a real state of despondence and delusion with dire consequences.

“There is no oasis situated yonder; you are stuck with the mirage.” - UG

                                 ****

A note from Chandrasekhar Babu:

'Labeling U.G.'s message as "negative" is the mind's defense mechanism - an attempt to discredit and invalidate that which it perceives as an annihilating force capable of dismantling its deeply entrenched structures of thought and identity.'

                               

                                   ****

Transcription of the video clip

Luc Sala: “Not much left! …that’s the main story. UG Krishnamurti, every time I talk with you, you leave me with nothing. I would call you the big Blackhole of our knowledge. Everything that we can dream of, as being relevant, as having meaning, goes into UG’s Blackhole and disappears…

UG: I don’t see any Blackhole.

LS: Well, for me, you are! You are like the way they (what you call), our illusions disappear, I don’t know what is behind the Blackhole, neither do you…

UG: I don’t see any Blackhole there…you see a Blackhole there?

LS: Whatever I see, you make the weapon smoke !

UG: There is a very comforting thing for you to believe that I am a Blackhole.

LS: Even to believe Blackhole, isn’t there…We spoke with UG Krishnamurti, 50 years ago he came to Holland and for about 50 years , he did away with his being associated with Theosophical Society, and everything India stood for and I believe everything that the Western world…

UG: Everything human thought has come up with, everything was thrown out of my system, I am a very lucky guy, I have been freed from the stranglehold of the human thought and I CANNOT BE OF ANY HELP TO ANYBODY BECAUSE, YOU DON’T NEED ANY HELP!

LS: Wow… To feel free from the need to be…

UG: To be free from the need to be free

LS: To be free from the need to be free, That’s a paradox…

UG: It sounds like a paradox…It’s a fact!

LS: To be free from the need to be free

UG: There is nothing there to be free from…

WOW !!!

****

" What kind of human being you want in this world? " - UG

 

" What kind of human being you want in this world? "

Knowledge is a societal inheritance, the collective experience and thinking of mankind from time immemorial.

Some of our material and spiritual goals take their birth in the experience and thoughts of men and women we hold in great awe and esteem. We tend to eulogize and emulate their thoughts and behaviors.

Society showcases two contradictory models or archetypes for our emulation – the first is symbolized by the King (the ruler or the achiever or the top dog in any field) epitomizing the material goals. The second is the Savior (the saint or the philosopher or the guru) evangelizing the spiritual goals. Both models are dangled as worthy of our lifetime pursuit.

There is also the third kind, the hybrid model of the ‘Philosopher-King’ or the ‘Sage-Ruler’ (the benign-leader).

We are brainwashed from childhood to believe that achievement of material goals or the attainment of spiritual goals as the be-all and end-all of our life.

“Your spiritual goals are not different from the material goals” - UG. He maintained that both are fundamentally self-serving or self-seeking activities.

Spiritual goals are mere psychological wants. Psychology is a societal burden, a superimposition on the biology, the root cause of mental anguish.

Wanting to be someone, to be superior, to be different from others is a fake, unnatural undertaking. Not only it involves huge effort and energy, it is the root cause of frustration, restlessness and hopelessness.

“Wanting and thinking always go together – as long as you want something, there is thinking.” - UG.  

Greater the seeking, greater the needless thinking, greater is the misery!

 

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Frustration could arise when someone is chasing some impossible or unachievable goal. Also, when there is an incompatibile goal that contradicts one’s true nature.

UG addressed both these issues in his inimitable ways. He personally helped many individuals through timely intervention. He made some give up their jobs to pursue business instead ( a la banker Nagesh who went on to establish a successful business in Realty Finance) , he made some give up their business to take up a public career ( a la Frank Noronha who gave up tea business and ended up as the Chief Spokesperson for the Government of India), he encouraged some to embrace saffron ( a la Lahiri, an Indian businessman from Europe) while influencing others to give up  saffron ( a la Udipi Swamiji).  

The guidance was always finetuned and calibrated to suit the needs of the particular individual to mitigate the suffering born of impossible or incompatible goals.

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A note from Chandrasekhar Babu, UG's longtime friend and host:

In the year 1983 while I was employed with the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited in Bangalore, I got a lucrative offer from a private company in Hyderabad. I went to meet UG who was at the time staying at Goldie's (Film Director Vijay Anand) guest house in Mumbai.

After learning about the new job offer, UG said, "Do you have to relocate to Hyderabad? What a shame!" 

To drive home the absurdity of the choice, he quoted a Telugu proverb, " ఇంత బతకు బతికి ఇంటి వెనక చచ్చాడాన్నట్లు" ("After living life king-size, dying like an outcast!")

UG advised me not to accept the offer.

Soon after, I got a fantastic offer from Hindustan Motors, closer to Bangalore. UG readily approved. I left Hindustan Aeronautics to join HM. 

Years later, once again UG played a key role in my opting for voluntary retirement from service in 1992. I was 47 at the time, with at least a dozen more years of service under my belt. 

I complied with UG's advice, resigning from service on the 9th of July 1992, incidentally on UG's 74th birthday!

My stint with Valentine Model School commenced soon after. 

 ****

Transcript of the Video Clip:

UG: The basic question we all have to ask is, “What kind of a human being you want in this world?”

( Q: the goal of psychiatrists etc.)

UG: We have unfortunately placed before mankind the models of a perfect being. THAT PERFECT BEING IS THE SPIRITUAL TEACHER AND HIS BEHAVIORAL PATTERNS. AND THE WHOLE VALUE SYSTEM IS BORN OUT OF THAT.

And our insistence and demand, on the part of culture and the value system, to fit them all into that mold is bound to fail, because every individual is unique, UNIQUE!

Nature is not interested in creating the human species in one common mold, it is interested in creating different species, it does not use anything as a model, that’s where we have gone wrong. Because of the fear that the status quo of our culture or society or whatever you want to call it, cannot be maintained if we do not fit all the people into that value system.

I am not against the value system at all, but the demand to fit everybody into a common mold, which is the value system, is responsible for the breaking up or breaking down of many people. They have given up.

And the so-called normal man, if there is any, he lives in hope and dies in hope, (that) one day he is going to successfully fit himself into that value system very successfully, and live in harmony with that. And the mad people have given up and so, we are pushing them to make them functional and it is the very thing that is pushing them to suicide.

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Blogger's Note ( See comment below) :

The following episode was narrated by UG himself in Bombay while on a visit to our home.

This happened a few decades ago.

Once while UG was visiting Udipi in South of India, he was invited by the Swami of a Udipi Mutt who was In Charge of Udupi Sri Krishna Temple. The role of the Chief is locally termed Paryaya ( Paryaya is the term used to describe the tenure for a period of two years when a pontiff from among eight different mutts ( Ashta Muttams in Udipi) is chosen to be the Chief Worshipper / Administrator of the famous Sri Krishna Temple of Udupi in Karnataka, India.)

Paryaya is cyclic as every one of the pontiffs of the eight mutts gets his turn to be the Administrator or Head of the Temple for two years and worship Sri Krishna's idol ( Installed by Sri Madhwacharya ) once in every sixteen year cycle.

UG mentioned that his friend, Prof Dr. Ramakrishna Rao ( Principal of Sanskrit College, Udupi at the time , incidentally my uncle) happened to know the Swami (in Paryaya) well. 

Also, Dr. Rao had mentioned about UG to the Swami and about UG's calamity ( that had pushed UG into his Natural State or Sahaja Stithi) and the Swami had naturally expressed his desire to meet UG in person whenever he was visiting Udipi.

UG could not recollect the name of this particular pontiff as many such swamis from various Indian spiritual traditions ( ranging from Shankaracharya tradition, Ramakrishna tradition , Ramanuja tradition etc. ) came to see him regularly during his annual visits to India. They were curious to know about his Natural State.

UG informed Dr.Ramakrishna Rao in advance that he was not interested to see the Swami if that meant he had to remove his shirt or upper garment, as is the tradition with the South Indian spiritual mutts or ashrams. ( UG dismissed it as 'strip tease'). But the Swami was magnanimous and keen to meet and know more about UG and therefore ready to accommodate and waived all rules in the case of UG.

When UG finally arrived at the mutt, the Udupi Swami was delivering a Talk on the Bhagwad Gita. UG quietly took his seat among the audience.

During the talk, when the Swami began to explicate one of the Shlokas of the Bhagwad Gita, UG wrote on a small chit of paper what he personally thought was the real interpretation of that particular verse and sent it privately to the Swami so as not to disturb the gathering or the discourse.

Interestingly the Swami read the contents of the chit out loud and was rather appreciative of UG's take on the subject and he openly announced to the assembly that UG's interpretation of the verse was exactly the right way to understand or interpret the Bhagwad Gita. His words were to the effect, " What today's UG Krishnamurti is saying is not very different from what Sri Krishna said in the Bhagwad Gita of Dwapara Yuga ( eons ago, during the period of Mahabharata )."

Post the talk, the Swami and UG met each other. UG wasted no time, observing that while the Swami wore his saffron, he was also battling with his own inner demons. UG seems to have remarked, "You are wearing saffron but why are you carrying on an an affair with that girl? ( Pointing to some lady in the audience)

The Swami immediately pulled aside UG into his private quarters and wanted to discuss his real predicament. He was desperate for a solution to his personal turmoil, inner dichotomy that was tearing him apart. He had been initiated at the tender age of eight into a life of sanyas or renunciation by his guru and became a pontiff but as years went by, during his teenage years, this turned into burden upon reaching puberty. The Swami was brutally honest about his sexual urges that had begun to torment him. UG heard him through. He reassured him that he would offer his full support in case he wanted to lead a normal life through some of his own contacts in the US, on condition that the Swami would give up his sanyas or saffron and marry his ladylove.

Soon the Swami did give up his spiritual life and eventually married the lady and settled down in the US embracing the life of a householder with a family and several children.

This incident seems to have taken place somewhere in the late 1970s...or may be early 80s in line with UG's visits to Dr. Rao's place in Udipi during the latter's tenure as Principal of Sanskrit College.

Personally I have no reason whatsoever to disbelieve the narrative of UG given his brutal honesty about his own sexual urges, his one-night stand etc. which could be heard from the horse's mouth  in many audio and video tapes available in the public domain.

A few months after publishing this blog, I had received a painstaking , laboured writeup ( version 1.0) from Mr. Sumant, PhD ( see comment below) that was redirected to me by our long term UG friend, Chandrasekhara Babu. I personally found that it lacked any proof or evidence to refute or discount UG's narrative about the Udupi Swami or suggest an authentic alternative to it.

On dismissing it as lacking any direct witness account to prove or disprove anything about the Swami who had interacted with UG, surprisingly there appeared yet another write up by the same author ( version 2.0, generously edited version of the same version 1.0 ), once again forwarded to me by Babu.

This version had some additions and deletions which qualitatively changed nothing either about the author's claims or in anyway substantiated his misguided enthusiasm to prove that UG had no role whatsoever to play in the Swami's renunciation.

Unfortunately both versions lack any redoubtable proof to refute or contradict UG's own account. There is nothing substantive in terms of testimonials or direct witness accounts to discount or disprove UG's narrative. 

It is indeed a fact that there are now more Udupi Swamis who have shown real guts and gumption to give up ochre robes, say bye to pretentious lives, and boldly marry and lead normal lives. Their lives visibly resonate with UG's wisdom of courage to walk alone and to follow the dictates of one's conscience.

The intention or the mission of the author wanting to refute UG is still remains unclear after two versions of his rebuttal. 

For the records, let me also submit that I personally have utmost respect for giants from Sri Madhwacharya lineage, the likes of Sri Vyasa Teertha, Sri Vijayendra, Sri Raghavendra Teertha etc. who were real beacons of light, of unmatched wisdom , who touched and blessed innumerable lives in the past during their earthly sojourns.

Try as I might , I fail to find any rationale to suspect or question or ignore UG's account about the Udipi pontiff that he had met and helped , given his brutal honesty about himself or even his own sex life. And so many pontiffs giving up saffron for good.

UG remains an open book, fiercely threatening every belief structure and tearing down the citadels of spiritual power that have turned into authoritarian establishments threatening individual freedom to choose one' s path.

No offence meant for any faith or sect

Just an objective recounting of events as they happened.

“NOT GETTING WHAT YOU WANT is sorrow, is frustration” – UG

Mahesh Bhatt sparring with UG

The Real McCoys or sages are grounded and purposeless. They go about leading ordinary lives, completely engaged (but not involved) in the mundane affairs of life.

The real men and women shy away from all recognition and reputation, staying clear of ceremony and pomp, security and fortification. The Real McCoy is never caught in the trappings of a Pope or a jagad-guru. (“If Jesus had security, there would be no Christianity.” – UG to Mahesh Bhatt pointing to the heavily-guarded Vatican).

Sages never hesitate to speak out or act when they sense danger or harm either to the community or an individual. When circumstances demand courage and wisdom, they are ready and willing to forsake their reputation and even their lives to avert a crisis or prevent harm.

The sagely utterings and sayings are all born in such benign interventions. Like the sudden onset of an earthquake, or the abrupt eruption of a volcano, the outpourings are extempore speeches or statements, not delivered from the convenience and comfort of pulpits or platforms.

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The timeless classic of Bhagwad Gita was birthed right in the middle of a pitched battle when Sri Krishna got engaged in a dialogue with a deluded and despondent Arjuna who had given up his resolve to fight even before the war started.

The iconic warrior had ironically succumbed to his own internal enemies, the demons of dichotomy, unable to choose between his ‘duty’ (to fight injustice) and ‘loyalty’ (to his elders and teachers standing against him in the opposition camp), he was clueless about his response, completely muddled and utterly perplexed!

This is the deceptive power of a conditioned mind under the vicious grip of a hypocritical value system.

Sri Krishna does not waste time and embarks on the discourse of Gita, exorcising the demons of delusion in Arjuna who then readily embraces ‘duty’ over ‘loyalty’, ‘rightness’ over ‘uprightness’ accomplishing his goal.

Gita has since become a beacon for all those battling with demons of despondence and delusion.

The famous epic Bhagavatam similarly came about during a personal crisis. It was delivered by the sage Suka to King Parikshit while the latter was on a death sentence through snakebite because of a curse.

Socrates gave his famous ‘Defense Speech’ before his death sentence through consumption of the deadly hemlock.

Jesus delivered his momentous sermon while ascending the gallows.

The sagely Nisargadutta Maharaj, on his way to organize his wife’s funeral, stopped short and wholeheartedly addressed the concerns of a spiritual seeker, on a road-side chat, while the seeker remained oblivious to the circumstances.

All of them acted promptly in response to people overwhelmed by their struggles and crises.

Contrast all this with the bogus speeches of today’s platform-gurus. The scripted speeches are filled with cheap platitudes and palliatives, full of entertaining quotes, jokes and stories. They are completely stage-managed by army of cronies, time-bound, carrying huge price tags, pepped up by ceremony and music, in club-class comfort creating the ambience of a ‘spiritual spa’.

Platform performances and con artists in the spiritual business are far removed from harsh realities of life.

The real ‘awakening’ is more like ‘a kick in the gut’ by a sagely character and a grim reminder of reality.

Intense exchanges of friends with UG are real kickers filled with raw energy and emotions.

Only those who remained brutally honest, and prepared for the gut-punches could get into the ‘ring’ with UG, and survive the intense pressure and heat, and the relentless body blows.

A countable few really dared to ‘take the bull by the horn’ teasing out some of the finest repartees from UG, true gifts for posterity.

We are grateful to these daring men and women.

Here is such a high-voltage encounter between the fiery UG and a vicious Mahesh Bhatt.

In this rare clip, UG is holding forte, pushing the envelope and ‘frustrating’ his longtime friend Mahesh Bhatt.

Mahesh is forcefully pushing back, here, he is the very personification of vehemence, taunting UG and touting JK, making a case for ‘frustration’, and doggedly defending the ‘reality of frustration’. He is genuinely and fiercely rooting for ‘freedom from frustration or sorrow’ (some common ‘JK themes’ – familiar to many ‘JK-widows’)

UG, as usual, is unperturbed and nonchalant, brushing aside the rationale for ‘the reality of frustration’ advanced by a rebellious Mahesh.

UG has the last word and nails it, “All your romanticized pain, sorrow or frustration are rooted in NOT GETTING WHAT YOU WANT.” Period!

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Our unfulfilled wants or desires, feelings of hopelessness or pathos, make for rich mental imagery and juicy word-salads. These could be spun into romantic poetry, into drama, movie scripts, into profound philosophical or intellectual or spiritual doctrines (‘the doctrine of suffering’), into enchanting writings and discourses by skilled pundits or wordsmiths.

Words solidify experiences, letting us relive a moment of joy or pain or loss giving it a life and momentum of its own.

Society has always glorified and celebrated verbalization. The gigantic collection of books in world’s libraries is a testament.

Wordsmiths who lack empathy and the sagely wisdom could easily weaponize the words with enormous consequences for humanity.

Only a sage could exorcise the demon of verbalisation. 

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Transcription of the video clip: 

UG: Its all bullshit. Nothing else. What’s sorrow, you are talking about?

Q: No you keep on saying, something which we are battling with every now and then, that it’s not there!

What’s it that there?

Q: It is there!

UG: What is there, you tell me?

Q: I am frustrated! Frustration is concrete. Sorrow is concrete here! You just say it’s not there!

UG: Where is it?

Q: It’s there inside of me. It is there.

UG: Because it’s not there, the vehemence is coming! Its’s not there,

Q: It is there

UG: Where?

Q: I feel it inside my body, as a physical ache, I feel

( The dialogue gets repeated)  

UG: It is throwing out, that nonsense!

Q: What is throwing out?

UG: It is not throwing out, you are talking about it, it is not there.

Q: Where?

UG: You say it is there, I say it is not there, that’s the end of all conversation, finish!

Q: For you its not there,

UG: For you also its not there, you are just talking about that nonsense

Q: It is there for me and it is there for everyone.

UG: I don’t see, how is it expressing itself?

Q: You are the only person for whom, it does not seem to be there

UG: No, no, no, it’s not there

Q: That’s why a man like J Krishnamurti or a writer like that makes more sense to me than you

UG: Certainly

Q: This Frustration makes more sense to me. I relate to that frustration and not to you. You don’t seem to understand what we are talking about.

UG: I understand you.

No. I don’t think so. You say there is no sorrow, no despair, no frustration.

UG: Why you are still trying to be free from that frustration

That’s my whole tragedy is, I am still trying to…

UG: Why you are still (trying to?), YOU HAVE NO PROBLEMS…

‘NOT GETTING WHAT YOU WANT’

is sorrow, is frustration – UG

****

Go anywhere, do anything you want, that’s the only thing I am saying.

All frustration, write poetry, some nonsense, some romantic stuff, what frustration? What is it you are doing? I don’t see any frustration!

I have frustration (mocking), what the hell you are talking about?

NOT GETTING WHAT YOU WANT, THAT’S THE FRUSTRATION!

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT?

You want to be free from frustration, then you want me to tell you ‘how I can be free from frustration?’, That ( the effort or yearning to free oneself) is the one that keeps the frustration there.

The HOW is related to the frustration. So, you don’t want to be free from frustration. You want to live with it, romanticize it, and make movies and make money, sit on a platform and talk about it – ‘don’t condemn it, don’t justify it, don’t identify yourself with frustration, be choicelessly aware of that…

ONE WHO IS CHOICELESSLY AWARE OF THE FRUSTRATION IS THE FRUSTRATION!

There is no other frustration other than the bastard’s (JK) statement – ‘choicelessly aware of frustration’ – THAT IS THE FRUSTRATION!

Because you will never be free from that, that’s a joke – ‘be choicelessly aware of frustration’, just look at it, that (frustration) doesn’t exist. (It’s) the only thing that exists(are) his empty words, that you have picked up from somewhere else. That’s all. So you don’t want to be free from that.

If you are really interested in freeing yourself from that which you are not (a frustrated human), that shit (all empty words and borrowed ideas) must go…